Fox Hunting Ban

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This topic contains 52 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Seamus 12 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #19027 Reply

    Mace Boudreaux
    Participant
    #19028 Reply

    Mace Boudreaux
    Participant

    Why they is banning fox hunting? That is cruel, yes? Fox need to hunt for food or starve to death. Are they try to extinct the fox ?
    So plz tell me why they is banning the fox from hunting its food?

    Mace

    #19029 Reply

    Steven
    Participant

    It’s a little odd that you appear to have struggled to grasp the proper use of the English language yet you have the ability to abbreviate the word please.

    Anyhow the gag itself was mildly amusing even if the way you went about it wasn’t.

    #19030 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    :angry: That was just stupid!!

    #19031 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    hopefully society will forever change one day and get rid of all the physical, physchological and emotional illness’s that surround us.

    #19032 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    It is fine to kill thousands in Iraq, at a cost of BILLIONS. (Think of how many grammar classes that would fund!)

    It is fine to support a super-power that only this week allowed the resumption of assault weapon sales to its high streets. While fighting terror, of course.

    It is fine to allow humans to be killed at a stage of gestation that would enable them to survive outside of the womb. A fully functioning foetus has no rights, that would impose a duty on women, and we couldn’t have that now, could we. Women get it all these days, just ask Batman!

    It is fine to kill millions of cattle in the foot-and-mouth crisis. No nose-pirced ” Living Marxism” sellers turned up in those dark days to lament the mass-burnings at the burial pires. Why would they have. Nobody wore a scarlet coat.

    It is fine to neglect the aged and the homeless while the money goes to the MOD.

    It is fine to neglect the education of our children, to sell off the playing fields so the Fat get Fatter, and the fat get fatter too. While denouncing obeisity of course!

    But god help you if you dare to enjoy a day’s hunting, you cruel, barbaric savage!!

    #19033 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    Moron.

    I’m thrilled fox hunting is most likely going to be banned. Where’s the fucking enjoyment in letting 25 dogs tear a fox apart? Could you please fucking tell me that?

    #19034 Reply

    NEWSBOY2
    Participant

    I think I make up a vast proportion of the country (or should that be townies) who aren’t really bothered, one way or the other. Its not really a sport, maybe they could use artifical robot foxes or something? Kinda werid to get a kick from killing something though, just for the sake of it.

    #19035 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    Why is it that people always presume the enjoyment comes from the moment at which the fox is killed?

    The truth is that nearly every day of the hunting season a lone huntsman (it is a professional title) goes out and, using the hounds, dispenses with a ‘nuisance’ fox.
    Sometimes he is followed by members of the public on horseback who belong to a ‘hunt’ and dress in the traditional ‘hunting’ gear, which seems to cause so much offence to so many people because they somehow associate it with being a ‘toff’. The most popular occasion for this traditionally is around Christmas and New Year.

    The ‘kill’ itself is not at all the reason why the followers follow a hunt on horseback. It is the partaking in a tradition which unites man, horse and hound in a unique experience, one in which the rider witnesses a relationship between the animals that he would never otherwise witness. The horse reacts to the presence of the other horses, which in turn react to the sense of purpose in the hounds, and what results is not an excitement of which anyone should be ashamed, but a bonding with the natural world.

    Rarely do the followers on horseback even see the result of a ‘kill’, if indeed one is made.

    It is a subject which is so misunderstood, over-politicised and, above all, over-sentimentalised, and should not be interfered with on ‘gut-reaction’ or for political gain. There are, as I tried to indicate above, plenty of topics to debate where, I would suggest, cruelty IS an issue.

    Kristian clearly disagreed but, alas, lacked the poetry to express it with dignity. Sorry for him.

    #19036 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    You’re an idiot. Find a way to unite horse, man, hound and whatever in a unique experience without murdering foxes by tearing them apart.

    It’s also tradition to execute people by beheading in Saudi Arabia…

    #19037 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    P.S. Kristian, I see you are danish and into videogames and basketball. Might I suggest you may be a little lacking in experience of the english countryside and its traditions to offer quite such a vicious attack. It may be a little more humble of you to educate yourself on the subject first before resorting to the ‘F’ word. Tak skal du have!

    #19038 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    I am not an advocate of capital punishment in any form, in any country, but I find it hard to equate the seriousness of capital punishment to bona fide pest control.

    If you are suggesting on philisophical grounds (which would be a welcome step) that a fox should share the same ‘absolute’ rights as a human being, then we must simply disagree.

    I do not wish to be condescending in any way, sincerely, but the subject of human dominion over the animals is dealt with exquisitely by Ernest Hemingway in his studies of bullfighting, another subject which divides modern society. Might I recommend ”Death in the Afternoon” to you, or ”Dangerous Summer”?

    #19039 Reply

    Tanya
    Participant

    Kristian,

    Can you manage to express your views and opinions without swearing and offensive words!
    This is a public forum and everyone here are entitled to their own opinion, without being personally judged. If you still don’t understand terms of the forum, I suggest you should read it first under “Forum Rules”!
    _______
    Tanya

    #19040 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    sam+Sep 16 2004, 07:27 PM–>(sam @ Sep 16 2004, 07:27 PM)
    (…) pest control.

    Oh, pest control? Then why in the world don’t you just shoot them?

    The fact that something is a tradition doesn’t mean that it’s something you should be allowed to keep on doing. That was the, very obvious, meaning of my comparison with the traditions of Saudi Arabia.

    #19041 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    There are many practices and traditions throughout this great and diverse world which are beyond the understanding of those who do not partake in them. Some, like the tradition of public beheading, are shocking to most of those outside observers.

    Some practices are less dramatic and take place closer to home, even within our own society, yet still they are not understood by the outside observer.

    The fact is that each of our individual moral systems is a product of his or her past and environment, and growing up in the country leads you to a very different system of beliefs and values than growing up in the city, even within a country as small as England. I see the diversity as contributing to the society as a whole, as adding colour to it rather than making it a homogenous black and white. I don’t expect those raised in the cities to desire a country way of life, but to pass a law banning one of its fundamental practices is to impose a judgement upon it that it is ‘wrong’ in the absolute sense and, logically, always has been.

    As I said above, I believe moral systems NOT to be based on absolutes, but on culture and environment, and therefore can not accept such censorship.

    By the way, when did you last attempt to locate, track and shoot a fox over fields with boundaries and through forested areas?

    #19042 Reply

    eagleeye
    Participant

    So much for my ‘quick reply’ – it got nuked!!

    I think Kristian has a point although he mentions beheading, which is (barbaric) punishment. There are traditional cultural values and practices that have belonged and are dear to the hearts of societies in the world, which we quite freely denounce as barbaric. eg female circumcision; not a punishment, a cultural value.

    As for culturally ‘acceptable’ (mal)treatment of animals – one example from Southern Africa: goats have their throats cut as slowly and painfully as possible, as the long held and culturally ‘acceptable’ belief is that the longer the goat screams in agony, the more the spirits of the ancestors are appeased. Is that OK? The SA govt thinks so…and so do millions of citizens.

    I’m opposed to all cruelty whether to people or animals. I don’t think it’s helpful to divide the two or compare the two. Cruelty = cruelty. I’m sick of gratuitous violence and that’s what hunting is (btw you should see how socially acceptable it is in other countries – the UK is a paragon of virtue by comparison).

    Don’t pretend there’s no enjoyment of the chase and the kill in a foxhunt…please.
    And a country type once told me when I was a kid that the fox was hunted humanely and “felt no fear at all”. I remember asking “oh yeah, well why does it run away then?”

    I’m just waiting for some pro hunting type to post that Hitler was the first world leader to be openly vegetarian and to ban hare coursing…

    Last word to Oscar Wilde re foxhunting anyhow “the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable”.

    #19043 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    Bottom line. Either you grow up in the country or the city. Either you sentimentalise and use emotive adjectives like ‘cruel’, or you see it for what it is and understand its place in the natural world.

    Or, like Kristian from conformist Denmark where the cult of the individual is unimagineable, you embrace the new world order of Play Stations and X-Boxes, and never get dirt under your nails.

    Make a choice, but let me make mine too. Simple.

    #19044 Reply

    Newsroom
    Participant

    Well said Sam…

    #19045 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    I think I have a right to express my views here as a country born and bred 32 year old still living in the country, foxhunting as with any hunting is a sick, cruel and ignorant ‘sport’. What right does man/woman have to kill an animal who is only trying to survive on a daily basis in a constant changing man made world, it is a hard enough struggle for them without been chased and ripped apart by a pack of dogs, which is what happens, no matter what any pro-hunters are saying, I have witnessed this ‘humane kill’ many times while walking my own dogs and no they’re not hunting dogs!
    The worst memory I have is that of watching a huntsman digging out foxcubs from their den and throwing them to a pack of dogs who needlessly to say savaged them, 3 foxcubs were sentenced to this ‘humane’ killing in front of cheering men and women on horseback, how sick is that Sam???

    Well done Kristian for posting your views!

    As for Sam, well you give the typical pro-hunting argument, tradition!, tradition!, tradition! – Rubbish!

    Wake up and smell the blood on your hands!! :angry:

    #19046 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    I have not played the ‘tradition for tradition’s sake’ card at all. I have attempted to draw people into a debate based on moral philosophy (”What is, if indeed it exists, an ABSOLUTE ‘right’ or ‘wrong’?) as opposed to rhetoric based entirely on emotion and sentiment (”sick”, ”cruel”, ”struggle”, ”chased”, ”ripped”, ”savaged”….), all highly emotive and descriptive, but void of any philosophical search for a conclusion as to whether the act is nontheless justified. Apply the anti-hunting rhetoric to, for example, WAR: ”sick”, ”cruel”, ”struggle”, ”chased”, ripped”, ”savaged”…. Yet we invest BILLIONS in it, because people reach moral conclusions that war nontheless has a moral validity. This is known as ‘Consequentialism’.

    I am not a cruel person in any way, for cruelty has an implication at its core that the SOLE intention is to cause, and be gratified by, another’s pain, as opposed to pain being a bi-product (however undesired) of a necessary process.

    The distinction is obvious to anyone who thinks about it rationally, but will never be reached by those who use sentiment and emotion as their sole moral barometer.

    #19047 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    AnjaliWOW+Sep 18 2004, 03:51 AM–>(AnjaliWOW @ Sep 18 2004, 03:51 AM)
    I think I have a right to express my views here as a country born and bred 32 year old still living in the country, foxhunting as with any hunting is a sick, cruel and ignorant ‘sport’. What right does man/woman have to kill an animal who is only trying to survive on a daily basis in a constant changing man made world, it is a hard enough struggle for them without been chased and ripped apart by a pack of dogs, which is what happens, no matter what any pro-hunters are saying, I have witnessed this ‘humane kill’ many times while walking my own dogs and no they’re not hunting dogs!
    The worst memory I have is that of watching a huntsman digging out foxcubs from their den and throwing them to a pack of dogs who needlessly to say savaged them, 3 foxcubs were sentenced to this ‘humane’ killing in front of cheering men and women on horseback, how sick is that Sam???

    Well done Kristian for posting your views!

    As for Sam, well you give the typical pro-hunting argument, tradition!, tradition!, tradition! – Rubbish!

    Wake up and smell the blood on your hands!! :angry:

    You are talking about a fox like it’s a person, you should know they are a heartless killer, they will kill 10 Chickens for the sake of it, then make off with one for food. It is the nature of the fox that created this wonderful traditiional sight of the hunt in the country side, would not do it myself, but leave people alone. Go try tell the Spanish to stop Bull fighting and see what they say !!!!!

    #19048 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    Absolutely lousy argument!

    The fact that they’d bitch about it as much or more than those fox-hunters doesn’t make bull-fighting right. And it doesn’t mean that a government shouldn’t try and stop it if they felt stopping it was the right thing to do.

    #19049 Reply

    sam
    Participant

    Bullfighting will survive because it unites both country AND city, so there is a universal understanding of its moral validity, despite the objections of some. It does not divide spanish society. Foxhunting has nothing to do with the fox, but with social divisions (or perceived social divisions) and intolerance in English society today. Obviously the city metrosexuals outnumber us dumb country boys in the UK, so that is the justification for trying to label us as savages on the statute books.

    Did you read my argument based on consequentialism, Kristian, in the search for ‘right’ and ‘wrong’? You certainly didn’t reply. Not emotional enough for you??

    #19050 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    I couldn’t care less about any of your misinformed arguments.

    “I’m from the country, I can kill foxes any way I like because I choose to. You’re ignorant”.

    That doesn’t really do it for me.

    #19051 Reply

    Seamus
    Participant

    Why does Kristian create a banalised summary of Sam’s intelligent and reasoned argument and call it a ”quote”. A quote is a quote, a word-for-word citation, and Sam never said any such thing.

    Whether or not you want to hunt yourself, he does validly demonstrate that hunting is justifiable on moral grounds and should not be banned simply because the city-based majority ‘feels’ that way.

    I think you should raise the level of your arguments a little. How can you possibly dismiss Sam with ”I couldn’t care less about your MISINFORMED arguments”???? At least have the respect to return intelligence with intelligence.

    Go Sam!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go back to school, Kristian!!!!!!

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