Greater Powers For Home Invasion Victims

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  AnjaliWOW 12 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #22557 Reply

    Liam
    Participant
    #22558 Reply

    Liam
    Participant

    MP Patrick Mercer is i believe introducing a Bill to give people more power to defend their property in the face of burglary.
    The British Gov. however feel the law as it stands is “sound” and “reasonable force” is appropriate,
    surely,we should give the public a fighting chance and stop stacking the cards in the burglars favour?
    If i were a gun owner,legally,i personally would not hesitate to use one and as a victim of a burglary myself i am furious that the powers that be seem to feel that a householder has adequate rights…we dont and we need to.

    #22559 Reply

    hamishnewhouse
    Participant

    I think that the problem with the current law is that there is no clear definition of what “reasonable force” actually is. I think the law should clearly define what “reasonable force” actually is. Is it acceptable to kill someone; is it acceptable to paralyse some one?

    I do think, however, that if an intruder injures themselves whilst on a person?s property uninvited; they should NOT, I repeat NOT have the right to sue the property owner for damages. This just makes a mockery of the whole system.

    #22560 Reply

    backload
    Participant

    I do think, however, that if an intruder injures themselves whilst on a person?s property uninvited; they should NOT, I repeat NOT have the right to sue the property owner for damages. This just makes a mockery of the whole system.

    I agree whole heartedly. A person who enters someones property on whatever grounds, malice or otherwise should do so at their own risk.

    There is a duty of care on the part of trespasser more than the owner. The owner should not need to secure their property.

    There was a case of a guy sitting protesting on a railway track in California who lost both his legs when the engine ran over him while he was protesting – this is scandalous and it will happen on these Islands yet.

    #22561 Reply

    Liam
    Participant

    A trespasser gives up all rights…..a homeowner should be able to defend himself and family

    #22562 Reply

    Mr Byrne
    Participant

    A trespasser gives up all rights…..a homeowner should be able to defend himself and family

    I’ll drink to that, or should I say I’ll shoot to that? I mean, a burgler breaks into your house at night, he’s usually not alone. I think you should have the right to set your dog on them and shoot them if necessary. I mean say if you catch them. They’re going to be armed with a hurley stick, maybe a knife, or if worst came to the worst – a gun. They’re not going to run away, they’re going to approach you. If you don’t succeed in overpowering them, then you’re going to be in hospital, if your lucky, and imagine what they might be intersted in getting up to with your wife or girl friend? Sorry to sound discusting, but it could happen.

    I think we should have the right to defend ourselves. But as it stands now, if someone broke into your house what do you do? Call the police, then aproach them with your rifle (or shot-gun- thats a better one to use) – You say, leave the house. They say, make us. – They start to approach you or ignore you, — you have to shoot them, no other solution.

    #22563 Reply

    Liam
    Participant

    Well said Mr. Byrne,
    its not quite “shoot first ask questions later” but you have to think fast….
    restraining a burglar is preferable to being restrained by one,or as you pointed out a wife/girlfriend who present another type of temptation to some of these brainless, drugged-up slimeballs.

    #22564 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    If I ever come across anyone who is after breaking into my house he’d never be seen or heard of again and no law would be called… :angry:

    #22565 Reply

    Mr Byrne
    Participant

    Seen as I’m obviously to the only person here who’s a member of a riffle club, I think I can go the full way – say if someone breaks into your elderly neighbours house, she calls you – you go in, you should be able to shoot the scum-bags in her house too.

    #22566 Reply

    dotdotuk
    Participant

    REASONABLE FORCE is the phrase here.

    No one has the right to kill burgulars like that scumbag in Norfolk who shot someone in the back.

    The problem is that if burgulars know that houseowners can efectively have-a-go and not worry about the consequences then they will go out on their theiving tooled-up. Thereby making the world a lot less safe for all of us.

    A vicious circle I know but but instinctively throwing a punch or a frying pan to incapacitate or frighten off the thief is AND SHOULD be all that householders are entiltled to do.

    Self defence not slaughter.

    #22567 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    dotdotuk+Jan 16 2005, 06:19 PM–>(dotdotuk @ Jan 16 2005, 06:19 PM)
    REASONABLE FORCE is the phrase here.

    No one has the right to kill burgulars
    The problem is that if burgulars know that houseowners can efectively have-a-go and not worry about the consequences then they will go out on their theiving tooled-up. Thereby making the world a lot less safe for all of us.

    Self defence not slaughter.

    If person unlawfully enters my house with intent to steal my possesions and is armed in case they come across anyone in the house then they are ‘SCUM’ They deserve and will get bullet in the head, hatchet in the head or pounded to death with baseball bat…… possibly all 3.
    Point been that anyone entering my house unlawfully has lost any respect that I would normally have for a fellow human being and therefore would get no mercy.

    #22568 Reply

    dotdotuk
    Participant

    [QUOTE=AnjaliWOW,Jan 16 2005, 10:38 PM]

    If person unlawfully enters my house with intent to steal my possesions and is armed in case they come across anyone in the house then they are ‘SCUM’ They deserve and will get bullet in the head, hatchet in the head or pounded to death with baseball bat…… possibly all 3.
    Point been that anyone entering my house unlawfully has lost any respect that I would normally have for a fellow human being and therefore would get no mercy.

    I’ll assume you are joking

    #22569 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    Sorry! If a burglar enters my house its either him/her or me. I will do what it takes to defend myself, my family and my property. A burglar will enter my home at his peril.
    No scumbag is gonna destroy all that i’ve worked hard all my life for. I’d rather not take someones life but if the scenario was ever to arise and that was the outcome, i’d serve my time without a whine.

    #22570 Reply

    Mr Byrne
    Participant

    I agree witht eh views of Miss hellfire and anjaliWOW.

    I believe that if someone breaks into your house with the intention to steal, cause damage to assets or harm the occupents, then you should have the right to defend yourself. They won’t think twice about knocking you out with a Baseball bat.

    I agree with the American system on this count. But not on gun legislation. I’d pefer a more European style legislation on firearms. I believe that I should be allowed to purchase a dessert eagle to protect my family and property. My bolt-action riffle won’t me much use if the burglers have an illegal firearm, which are in plentyful supply.

    #22571 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    dotdotuk+Jan 16 2005, 09:43 PM–>(dotdotuk @ Jan 16 2005, 09:43 PM)
    I’ll assume you are joking

    I ain’t joking!

    If you enter my house with bad intent you’ll never been seen again!!

    #22572 Reply

    dotdotuk
    Participant

    AnjaliWOW+Jan 17 2005, 09:25 PM–>(AnjaliWOW @ Jan 17 2005, 09:25 PM)

    dotdotuk+Jan 16 2005, 09:43 PM–>(dotdotuk @ Jan 16 2005, 09:43 PM)
    I’ll assume you are joking

    I ain’t joking!

    If you enter my house with bad intent you’ll never been seen again!!

    The reason I thought you must be joking – quite apart from the right-wing rhetoric – is that ( forbid ) something like that should happen you have effectivley written your confession of pre-meditation on this forum.

    #22573 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    I’d have no problem admitting this to anyone face to face, I feel strongly about this, and the right to protect loved ones and/or property.

    Obviously if I saw someone in my front yard or around my house and I didn’t know who they were I wouldn’t feel the need for such defensive action, I am talking about an intruder, someone who is clearly out to steal my possessions and show no mercy to anyone they come across while in that unlawful act. In my opinion they have then given up any protective rights they had as a regular decent human being.

    As someone who has been in that situation once before but could not get my hands on any kind of weapon and ended up chasing intruder for half a mile through fields, ditches and streams before catching him and smashing he’s jaw in three places along with a few stitches before having to drag him back to the waiting law at my house, I was questioned and cautioned but he was hospitalised, charged and jailed. ( he had done 3 other houses that same day, one of which lived an elderly woman whom he had threatend with a scissors! )

    It’s not the ideal way to deal with this situation but to me it’s one where some kind of justice might be served, no doubt some people will disagree and they’re entitled to.

    #22574 Reply

    dotdotuk
    Participant

    AnjaliWOW+Jan 18 2005, 10:24 PM–>(AnjaliWOW @ Jan 18 2005, 10:24 PM)

    It’s not the ideal way to deal with this situation but to me it’s one where some kind of justice might be served, no doubt some people will disagree and they’re entitled to.

    I do disagree with you.

    I have been burgled.

    I was once also mugged by 2 cowards who ganged-up on me and punched me, breaking my nose. Then one lay on my arms while the other stole my money. I now permanently have a slight crook in my nose.

    However I have never thought that should I have the opportunity to beat them up that would somehow make it better! It would be me decending to their level.

    I certainly console myself with the thought that if they were habitual criminals then they will probably have spent a lot of time behind bars. They probably spend their life looking over their shoulders for the police ( or bigger thugs out to get them! ) while I have a good job and lifestyle.

    I note that you said you were cautioned by the police. In my job I have to be vetted so I would need to declare that on my security forms. I would not like to think that a moment of revenge would spoil my career 10 years later.

    #22575 Reply

    eagleeye
    Participant

    Mr B, what is a “dessert eagle”? It sounds like a fine kind of pudding albeit a dangerous sounding one?! :blink:

    In my unhappy SA experience, if you have a gun in the house, the buggers use it on you. Most gun crime there is with stolen guns.
    I’m in favour of gun free countries.
    OK I’m in favour of lots of things that aren’t going to happen but which would be nice.
    Like World Peace. Free red wine and chocolate.
    An end to the mangling of my favourite language with polspeak like “home invasion victims”. What’s a burglar called these days? A “home invader”? (I can think of builders I’d classify as “home invaders”).

    #22576 Reply

    Mr Byrne
    Participant

    As someone who has been in that situation once before but could not get my hands on any kind of weapon and ended up chasing intruder for half a mile through fields, ditches and streams before catching him and smashing he’s jaw in three places along with a few stitches before having to drag him back to the waiting law at my house, I was questioned and cautioned but he was hospitalised, charged and jailed. ( he had done 3 other houses that same day, one of which lived an elderly woman whom he had threatend with a scissors! )

    I don’t know you, but if we ever bump into each other, I’ll buy you a pint or a whiskey or a coffee or whatever it is you drink. Fair play to you. I would never have done what you did, that was very brave. You should have been praised by the gards, not cautioned.

    Mr B, what is a “dessert eagle”?

    Its an Israeli Handgun/pistol. Very powerful too.

    I’m in favour of gun free countries.

    Ah come on, it doesn’t matter how strict your gun control is, Illegal firearms will always be available. I belieev Sky News did an undercover investigation and bought, I think it was an Uzi 9mm?

    I was once also mugged by 2 cowards who ganged-up on me and punched me, breaking my nose. Then one lay on my arms while the other stole my money. I now permanently have a slight crook in my nose.

    Thats terrible. But how would you like it to happen to you, again, worse, and in your own house? If they came after you in your own house, wouldn’t you have to defend yourself? I don’t know about you but I’m not the fighting type of guy, I admit I’m not strong with fighting, punching that sort of stuff, I’d reach for a weapon and if they didn’t get out of my house, if they approached me, wouldn’t I have to use it? – and yourself, if you were in that situation, wouldn’t you have to fight to protect yourself?

    while I have a good job and lifestyle

    Exactly and scum bags that burgle peoples houses and hold you at knife point/gun point asking you where the money is – they target Middle class to Upper class people who have money. And it could be that incident that you don’t defend yourself. Who knows, they might put an end to any decent, hard working persons life but if you rationally defended yourself, you’d only at the worst, be putting an end to a scum bags life. They breakminto peoples houses, threaten them with weapons, take your money or proud possesions, push old women down the stairs – why should any of you give a damn about people like that?

    #22577 Reply

    dotdotuk
    Participant

    Mr Byrne+Jan 19 2005, 05:19 PM–>(Mr Byrne @ Jan 19 2005, 05:19 PM)

    I was once also mugged by 2 cowards who ganged-up on me and punched me, breaking my nose. Then one lay on my arms while the other stole my money. I now permanently have a slight crook in my nose.

    Thats terrible. But how would you like it to happen to you, again, worse, and in your own house? If they came after you in your own house, wouldn’t you have to defend yourself? I don’t know about you but I’m not the fighting type of guy, I admit I’m not strong with fighting, punching that sort of stuff, I’d reach for a weapon and if they didn’t get out of my house, if they approached me, wouldn’t I have to use it? – and yourself, if you were in that situation, wouldn’t you have to fight to protect yourself?

    But the point is we all have the right to defend ourselves. Other posts in this thread are basically saying murder is OK. I say reasonable force is OK.

    The problem with a policy of unfettered ability to kill is that the burgulars will carry more and more dangerous weapons to defend themselves – making things much worse than they are now.

    Who would want to be a courier or delivery driver – every psycho inviting you into their homes so they can kill you and tell the police they thought you were a burgular!

    Look at that bloke in America who shot a Japanese exchange student and got away with it because he said the boys appearance on his doorstep made him think of Pearl Harbor. Wouldn’t like to think we could go that way.

    Mr Byrne+Jan 19 2005, 05:19 PM–>(Mr Byrne @ Jan 19 2005, 05:19 PM)

    while I have a good job and lifestyle

    Exactly and scum bags that burgle peoples houses and hold you at knife point/gun point asking you where the money is – they target Middle class to Upper class people who have money. And it could be that incident that you don’t defend yourself. Who knows, they might put an end to any decent, hard working persons life but if you rationally defended yourself, you’d only at the worst, be putting an end to a scum bags life. They breakminto peoples houses, threaten them with weapons, take your money or proud possesions, push old women down the stairs – why should any of you give a damn about people like that?

    I hope that those who mugged me now have good jobs and have turned their backs on crime – it would mean 2 less scroats on the streets.

    Finally a story from about 10 years ago.

    I had not long moved into my house. I was at the front door but unbeknown to me the back door was open. A wind tunnel effect blew the back door shut breaking the glass in it ( the door was half glass ). I ran from room to room looking for a broken window. In the meantime a neighbour I did not know from a couple of doors down had heard the glass breaking and jumped over the wall as he assumed I was being burgled.

    Therefore I got to my kitchen and found a complete stranger standing there who had as far as I could see kicked my door in in order to rob me.

    Should I have killed him?

    Obviously ( to me anyway ) not.

    We stood there and he said something like “I’m from next door”, and I said “the wind must have blown the door”. And that was it. I thanked him, but as far as each of us knew the other could still have been a burgular!

    #22578 Reply

    AnjaliWOW
    Participant

    dotdotuk+Jan 18 2005, 10:59 PM–>(dotdotuk @ Jan 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
    However I have never thought that should I have the opportunity to beat them up that would somehow make it better! It would be me decending to their level.

    That’s fair enough!

    We will have to agree to disagree on this subject!

    You seem to be of the more understanding/passive nature, a kind of ‘turn the other cheek’ person which is a nice way to be and I commend you for been like that. I cannot be like that, it’s not in my nature or upbringing, I beleive that people should be made to pay for when they do wrong and not left off in the hope that someone else will sort them out in the future, who knows what trouble and pain they might cause others during that time span..before been caught.

    You stated that you were once mugged by 2 cowards who broke your nose, I’m sorry to hear that, but if I was in that situation I would have fought like a cornered bear until someone went down, maybe that someone would be me but I would still feel better for trying at least.

    #22579 Reply

    Mr Byrne
    Participant

    The problem with a policy of unfettered ability to kill is that the burgulars will carry more and more dangerous weapons to defend themselves – making things much worse than they are now.

    Not necessarily, you’d have an advantage considering that its your house and the alarm would be set off, meaning they have a limited amount of time, which is why I think it’d be safer if innocent people like us with no criminal records (excluding tax evasion) to have the option of owning a firearm like a handgun which is actually designed for that puropose.

    Who would want to be a courier or delivery driver – every psycho inviting you into their homes so they can kill you and tell the police they thought you were a burgular!

    Look at that bloke in America who shot a Japanese exchange student and got away with it because he said the boys appearance on his doorstep made him think of Pearl Harbor. Wouldn’t like to think we could go that way.

    (I’m laughing at the first part, and the stupidity of the second part)

    No, not in the British Isles, we have a different culture, different way of thinking. I’d like to think that in general we have more common sence than our cousins accross the pond. We have a different mentality to what you described so it would be rare over here for that sort of thing to happen… well I can’t speak for all of the region.

    I hope that those who mugged me now have good jobs and have turned their backs on crime – it would mean 2 less scroats on the streets.

    I would never be able to forgive anyone that did that to me. Well done to you if you can forgive them.

    Should I have killed him?

    If he was approaching you, armed maybe, wanted to harm you, then you’d need to defend yourself. But in that case, he wasn’t aggressive and explained what happened.

    #22580 Reply

    Liam
    Participant

    Another point worth mentioning is “reasonable” prudence when a householder is aware of a burglar on the premises late at night or upon arriving home.The “have-a-go” mentality is all very well but hardly to be encouraged,but….i still believe when all else fails,and youre threatened,if you happen to be a fit,strong individual and fancy your chances,you should be able to do whatever is necessary to subdue an invader.I know a couple who were tied up in their bedroom ,he swears to this day he would have never used force before the incident but now his attitude is very different i assure you.Sobering i tell you to listen to the voice of experience.

    #22581 Reply

    Forum Member
    Participant

    I don’t own a gun and ammunition nor do i have any desire to own one as i don’t need a firearm to protect myself. I do believe though that if a home owner was allowed to protect their home and family by whatever means necessary without prosecution then a majority of burglars would think twice about breaking into homes ( i can hear the crime figures dropping) because obviously the courts are not doing enough to stop it, as the crime figures are increasing. They can’t keep getting away with it and if the system isn’t going to protect me then i bloody well will as it’s my human instinct to defend myself.

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