What Has Not Been Reported

Discussions on news and breaking news events including, BBC News, ITV News, Sky News
manson
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Post by manson » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:27 pm

Aztech500+Jan 2 2005, 11:52 PM(Aztech500 @ Jan 2 2005, 11:52 PM)

What about the two jewish children stoned to death by an arab mob, or doesn't that count. The problem with Britain today and much of Europe is that it's very anti semitic; I am beginning to wonder whether we have been transported back to the 1930's.




As a Jew I have to inform you that from my standpoint you are talking arrant nonsense, and if you are a Jew too then I suggest you grow a skin quickly! Never mistake anti-Israeli feeling for anti-semitism in general.:ph34r:

welshdarts180
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:52 pm

Post by welshdarts180 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:43 am

Zed+Jan 3 2005, 07:07 PM(Zed @ Jan 3 2005, 07:07 PM)

Kristian+Dec 31 2004, 11:18 AM(Kristian @ Dec 31 2004, 11:18 AM)

How about doing the same for some of the Palestinian towns the army routinely blows to pieces?










Instead of arguing and counter arguing , here are some statistics :

From the begining of the recent Intifada 1,025 had been killed in Israel and 5,735 had been wounded . Israeli population is 6,700,00, while English is about 61,000,000 . What would the British government react if British casualties in the Irish conflict will cause 9,300 dead and 52,000 wounded in 4 years ?



Just in 2004 there 1,231 mortals and 309 Kassam missiles were sent toward Israel . 365 suicide bombers were arrested before carrying out their plans .



I am quoting from a Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority TV:



BEGINNING OF QUOTATION

We are convinced of the [future] victory of Allah; we believe that one of these days, we will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, enter Jaffa as conquerors, enter Haifa as conquerors, enter Ramle and Lod as conquerors, the [villages of] Hirbiya and Dir Jerjis and all of Palestine as conquerors, as Allah has decree

"Anyone who does not attain martyrdom in these days should wake in the middle of the night and say: 'My God, why have you deprived me of martyrdom for your sake? For the martyr lives next to Allah'"



"Our enemies suffer now more than we do. Why? Because we are convinced that our dead go to Paradise, while the dead of the Jews go to Hell, to a cruel fate. So we stand firm and steadfast, in obedience to Allah"



"The Jews await the false Jewish messiah, while we await, with Allah's help the Mahdi and Jesus, peace be upon him. Jesus's pure hands will murder the false Jewish messiah. Where? In the city of Lod, in Palestine. Palestine will be, as it was in the past, a graveyard for the invaders just as it was a graveyard for the Tatars and to the Crusader invaders, [and for the invaders] of the old and new colonialism"



"A reliable Hadith [tradition] says: 'The Jews will fight you, but you will be set to rule over them.' What could be more beautiful than this tradition? 'The Jews will fight you' that is, the Jews have begun to fight us. 'You will be set to rule over them' Who will set the Muslim to rule over the Jew? Allah Until the Jew hides behind the rock and the tree."



"But the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, a Jew hides behind me, come and kill him.'

"We believe in this Hadith. We are convinced also that this Hadith heralds the spread of Islam and its rule over all the land"



"Oh beloved, look to the East of the earth, find Japan and the ocean; look to the West of the earth, find [some] country and the ocean. Be assured that these will be owned by the Muslim nation, as the Hadith says 'from the ocean to the ocean'"



"Oh Allah, accept our martyrs in the highest heavens"



"Oh Allah, show the Jews a black day"



"Oh Allah, annihilate the Jews and their supporters"



"Oh Allah, raise the flag of Jihad across the land"

END OF QUOTATION



What is your idea to this educational system ?








8ballz
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:41 pm

Post by 8ballz » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:13 pm

What is your idea to this educational system ?



If the IDF left EVERY Hard Disk in EVERY Personal Computer in the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Education when they took over Ramelah and Arafats Compound - I would say it is a very bad educational approach.



However EVERY Computer Hard Drive was removed and not returned. You don't need to Break Glass and burn books in the streets or libraries any more; it can be done secretly and in an none too obvious way these days. It would appear that the lessons of the Warsaw Ghetto are being applied to the indigenous inhabitants of the Palestine. What can be the next step after mass reprisals and walling in, use of movement controls. I am surprised Sharon and Co aren't telling the Palesinians to wear badges.



As to the numbers what ARE you talking about?



There are fewer Palestinians in Israel and yet they have a consistent (if not a direct Government Policy to implement) a 3 to 1 ratio in fatal casualties.



Finally; lets be clear about this, while you attempt to defend the indefensible: I wouldn't want the IDF in my country if it was in good order never mind after a disaster, let them sort out the disaster they're imposing on their own backyard.



Just for the record the IDF killed MORE Irish Army Troops than any other army, anywhere, ever; while UNIFIL was patroling and trying to keep the peace in Southern Lebanon. It's not like the Irish Army doesn't participate in warzones - having troops on Iran /Iraq border, in Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Cyprus or the Congo.

manson
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Post by manson » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:16 pm

backload+Jan 5 2005, 01:32 PM(backload @ Jan 5 2005, 01:32 PM)



1/ It would appear that the lessons of the Warsaw Ghetto are being applied to the indigenous inhabitants of the Palestine.



2/ I am surprised Sharon and Co aren't telling the Palesinians to wear badges.





3/ As to the numbers what ARE you talking about?

There are fewer Palestinians in Israel and yet they have a consistent (if not a direct Government Policy to implement) a 3 to 1 ratio in fatal casualties.









1/ and 2/ are merely there so that you may contemplate what you have written.





3/ needs to be attributed to a source please so that I can see this extraordinary claim for myself!


manson
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Post by manson » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:12 pm

backload+Jan 5 2005, 04:23 PM(backload @ Jan 5 2005, 04:23 PM)

Point 3 3 to 1 ratio is reported by B'Tselem ( w http://www.B'Tselem.org w )



from 29th Sep 2000 to end 2004



Palestinian Fatalities: 3,174

Israeli Fatalities: 940



I am glad you forced me to review the figure because it transpires that in 2004 there was an attrocious 8 to 1 ratio which is simply not the work of any civilised state.



Palestinian Fatalities: 804

Isreali Fatalities: 107



There is no excuse for this level unless it is to terrorise, supress and obliterate a separate race that was peacefully living in the region for years before it was brutally invaded.



By way of comparison the British Armed Forces in Northern Ireland managed to fight and win a terrorist war without ever approaching this level of barbarity.




Sorry but you had stated that Palestinians in Israel were losing their lives at a three to one ratio, when it seems in fact you are referring to those in Gazza, West Bank etc.





The rest of your post is simply too moronic to contemplate debating. Get a good history book and settle down for a few years of really good study. Then you may just discover what the "Brutal Invasion" of Palestinian lands amounts to in reality, rather than in your inflamed and ignorant mind! No! '48 is not far enough, go back to 1870 and you might just get a glimpse, but why not go the whole hog and take pot luck with a good study, especially of Arab writers travelling through the region even prior to that and you will see that no INVASION was ever necessary for a people that had never completely left and were as present as any other "people"!!!!



You may also check out the origins of the people today referred to as "Palestinian". You may be in for a shock, because if 70 percent of them can't trace their roots beyond migrating toward the growing commercial success of the Jews at the turn of the 20th century then I doubt YOU can furnish them with an answer either!!!

8ballz
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:41 pm

Post by 8ballz » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:51 am

Sorry but you had stated that Palestinians in Israel were losing their lives at a three to one ratio, when it seems in fact you are referring to those in Gazza, West Bank etc.



If an IDF member dies in Gazza - where do they die?



A foreign country?



No?



A state under the control of a foreign power?



If so, why is this action where an IDF member dies not described as an invasion with an invader dying?



You will agree it is because it IS part of Israel, with in borders internationally unrecognised, this act is in the defacto borders acquired through force of arms.



[I}The rest of your post is simply too moronic to contemplate debating. Get a good history book and settle down for a few years of really good study. Then you may just discover what the "Brutal Invasion" of Palestinian lands amounts to in reality, rather than in your inflamed and ignorant mind! No! '48 is not far enough, go back to 1870 and you might just get a glimpse, but why not go the whole hog and take pot luck with a good study, especially of Arab writers travelling through the region even prior to that and you will see that no INVASION was ever necessary for a people that had never completely left and were as present as any other "people"!!!! [/I]



I am pleased to note that since my "post is simply too moronic to contemplate debating" you simply you dismiss it.



The sooner you examine critically your own received "History" the quicker you will see Israel for what it is; a land grab.



Same as any other sordid action of any group of people in history a grab for "Living Space".



You can dismiss the claims of an indigenous people all you wish, but it does not eradicate the fact. Setting up Bantustans, Reservations or Ghettoes is not a solution. One would think any group of intelligent Zionists and historically aware Jews should be more aware of this than anyone on the planet.



I have never come across such astounding hypocracy, blinding statements of stupidity and ignoring the truth of an 8 to 1 ratio of murder in your series of posts demonstrating your willful inaccuracy and blatant racial arrogance.



Any group who savagely kills its neighbours at a rate of 8 to 1 in any conflict should hang their heads in shame while shuting up and accept every critical statement as an opportunity to examine their consciences.



Israel has no special right to continue in a process like this and the sooner it's citizens realise this, the sooner the death toll will subside for them. The gestures of generosity from the State of Israel will only then be welcomed.

manson
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Post by manson » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:07 am

It is clear that you are working to an agenda. I dismiss your posts because you have dismissed reason and fact and are clearly unaware of the way in which modern Israel came into being, or even what it is now.



Prehaps we should start again with you explaining who the Palestinians refugees of today are, and how they came to be exciled from the state of Israel! This time try googling for an author without an axe to grind and your intimate knowledge of the subject may take on a less strident anti-Israeli tone!

8ballz
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:41 pm

Post by 8ballz » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:07 pm

It is clear that you are working to an agenda.



I'm not, but you clearly are. Nor am I bigotted or closed minded.



You can't answer my principal points; the IDF removed all the hard drives from the Education Ministry in the Palestinian Authority and now Israelis wonder why the Palestinians have a bad education system...



Secondly there is a clear and overwhelming preponderance of savagery on one side over the other, with a 3:1 ratio in fatalities amongst Palestinians and most recently almost 8:1.



The murdurous policy is barbaric and the educational issue a further demonstration of the appalling cynicism of the Isreali establishment to allow it to be perpetrated.



These are issues you should be ashamed of; rather than lecturing people to learn about the history of that shameful State, with its current appalling regime.



Change the regime and others will then be more welcoming.



Open your mind and you'll see there is a bigger World out there, one in which respecting neighbours grants peace and prosperity.



Indeed, like the Swiss during the Renaissance who supplied mercenaries to the rival city states and principalities in Italy, which were beggared by paying for these troops in those wars.

manson
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Post by manson » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:59 am

backload+Jan 9 2005, 12:08 AM(backload @ Jan 9 2005, 12:08 AM)

It is clear that you are working to an agenda.



I'm not, but you clearly are. Nor am I bigotted or closed minded.



You can't answer my principal points; the IDF removed all the hard drives from the Education Ministry in the Palestinian Authority and now Israelis wonder why the Palestinians have a bad education system...



Secondly there is a clear and overwhelming preponderance of savagery on one side over the other, with a 3:1 ratio in fatalities amongst Palestinians and most recently almost 8:1.



The murdurous policy is barbaric and the educational issue a further demonstration of the appalling cynicism of the Isreali establishment to allow it to be perpetrated.



These are issues you should be ashamed of; rather than lecturing people to learn about the history of that shameful State, with its current appalling regime.



Change the regime and others will then be more welcoming.



Open your mind and you'll see there is a bigger World out there, one in which respecting neighbours grants peace and prosperity.



Indeed, like the Swiss during the Renaissance who supplied mercenaries to the rival city states and principalities in Italy, which were beggared by paying for these troops in those wars.








LOL. Then I guess it comes down to which murdering bar stewards you prefer! Check out the Hamass leader' latest little side step over Abbas. Peace?. No chance, that would leave those blood thirtsy swine without a raison d'etre, same reason Arafat couldn't bring himself to bite the bullet, no Arab "street" no fame! :ph34r:

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